Trans Student Confronts Ben Shapiro On Scientific Anti-realism
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[Trans Student Confronts Ben Shapiro On Scientific Anti-realism]
[Student:] Source: LYBIO.net
Hey, Ben, I’ve been waiting for a long time.
[Benjamin Aaron Shapiro:]
Yeah. So have I for this moment.
Um… Well, I’ve kind of pondered (yeah) I’ve kind of pondered for this moment. Yeah. Well, I’ve kind of pondered how to ask this, but how does your view of transgender issues work when scientific anti-realism as a concept exists?
You’re going to have to explain that one.
All right. So a scientific anti-realism is the concept that when you see me, you see – you know – my skin, my hands, everything about me, but you do not see my cells, you do not see my atoms, you do not see the things that make up the things, they are just physical. So there is no really true way to prove other than by hitting me, obviously, that I am right here if it is only us two talking. So therefore this would apply to any gendering things including intersex which can have an XX or XY chromosome and have androgen or estrogen in sensitivity.
[Ben Shapiro:] Source: LYBIO.NET
So I just need you to narrow this down.
The argument – we don’t understand the nature of things because we don’t have microscopes and therefore we can’t determine sex.
I would like to narrow it down to um… we cannot fully identify a gender of a person right when we see them, so therefore I believe that it is not within my own individual liberty to gender that person.
Okay. So okay, so here’s my problem with that particular argument. The answer is that in 99.8% – 99.9% of cases you absolutely can gender somebody based on looking at them. Like really, if you’re going to use intersex people as an example of not being able to do that, this does not obviate the biological duality of sex upon which all progeneration is based for all of human history and for all mammalian species.
So intersex people do not invalidate the concept of sex as a generality, intersex people are people who have a biological anomaly. And by the way in most cases of intersex, those people still manifest as either a male or a female.
So the idea that intersex exists does not invalidate the idea that there is a male and that there is a female or that in the – in nearly all cases I can tell the difference between a male and a female.
Again, I’m not saying by the way that if you can show me your chromosomal charts that you are actually not a male when you say that – when I say that you are a male that I should stick with that biological objective standard. Like my perception of you in other words is subject to my correct enunciation of an objective standard. So the objective standard – here’s – here’s the deal, for all of human history there was an objective standard between male and female. It was for the most – for nearly all of human history out of partial ignorance and partially because this is usually true, it was out of genetic, it was out of simply looking at people’s genitals and assessing them based on their outward appearance, right, which is still true for nearly all human beings on planet Earth at all times, okay? What was that?
You can’t really describe someone without secondary sex characteristics and gender them into something.
Well, I mean, you can based on primary sex characteristics if you can see their genitals. Doctors do this literally at birth all the time, right? So this is so – but your point is correct, if somebody was male dressed as a female and I misgendered them and then they said, oh look, I’m male, zip, right then I would say correct. And then correct, I would say for all of human history you are male. Now the standard is chromosomal, right, it’s the SRY gene and all of this. There is some objective standard in other words by which we can determine sex.
The problem I have with the transgender argument is that people are arguing that there is no objective standard that no objective standard exists by which I can determine sex. And in fact, sex is completely subjective. I can determine my own gender based on no biology. And in fact, in abeyance of biology, I can have every single biological characteristic of a male. And if I say I am female then I am female, this is anti-scientific nonsense.
Yes, Caitlyn Jenner had every biological characteristic of a male. There is no evidence whatsoever that Caitlyn Jenner was a female because Caitlyn Jenner was an Olympic athlete as a male, with all of the chromosomes and all of the junk and all of it, right? That is a biological male and then we are supposed to believe that Caitlyn Jenner is female. Listen, I’m happy to call Caitlyn Jenner, Caitlyn, because people can legally change their name. If I were out to dinner with Caitlyn Jenner, I wouldn’t go out of my way to say Caitlyn Jenner is a he because why would I want to have a bad dinner with somebody. But, if I’m speaking in public with folks and I’m talking about the presence of sex, there is not a biologist worth their salt on planet Earth who would say that sex does not exist.
So if sex exists then what are the characteristics of sex? And the problem with biological anti-realism or scientific anti-realism as you’re suggesting is that there is no actual standard of sex, that it’s completely malleable.
It’s okay. Sorry, do you have a quick response? I don’t want to cut you off.
Um… I’m not saying that sex is malleable. I’m saying – there is male and female biologically, that is true, yes.
But I’m saying that gender is a spectrum I’m saying that there is at least male-female are non-binary…
[Ben Shapiro:] Source: LYBIO.NET
Right. And what I’m saying is that there’s a word game that goes on when people discuss gender because if we are talking about certain characteristics, to which we attribute to masculine or feminine. If you want to say that there’s a genetic male with feminine characteristics, we’re fine, that’s a male with feminine characteristics, fine, that’s fine, I mean, okay. So you’re a man with feminine characteristics, that’s cool, who cares, okay, but – but that doesn’t make you a woman. In other words if you are going – and what we are now doing is we’re playing a semantic game where we say a male with feminine characteristics is a woman, that’s nonsense, or a woman with male characteristics, masculine characteristics, is a man, that’s nonsense too.
And by the way, it actually ends up misgendering a lot of people who are just butch women or effeminate men, right?
So all of this – so in other words, by trying to separate out gender and sex completely and then by using terms like male and female or woman and man that are innately connected to sex, what you are doing is deliberately – not you, what people are doing is deliberately confusing the issue such that you get idiocies like Ilhan Omar writings the powerlifting association of USA saying that a transgender woman who is a biological male should be able to compete against biological women because it is a myth that men can pick up heavier objects than women. That is not a myth…
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Trans Student Confronts Ben Shapiro On Scientific Anti-realism. What we are now doing is we’re playing a semantic game where we say a male with feminine characteristics is a woman, that’s nonsense, or a woman with male characteristics, masculine characteristics, is a man, that’s nonsense too. Complete Full Transcript, Dialogue, Remarks, Saying, Quotes, Words And Text.