Smart Woman Leaves Gender Fluid Person SPEECHLESS In Heated Argument
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[Smart Woman Leaves Gender Fluid Person SPEECHLESS In Heated Argument]
Emma. Hi. Hi. You’re neither male nor female, right?
That’s true. I identify as non-binary, which means I’m neither male nor female and correspondence that I use the they, them pronoun.
And you say gender roles are damaging our society, so we need to think very carefully about language?
Yes. So a lot of our social selves are codified and cultured in the language that we use. We really use it to construct our entire society. And what certainly true is that there is a huge variance of gender presentation and gender identity within humankind. There isn’t simply men and women…
Humankind, you said that…
Exactly, humankind is basically mankind.
You wouldn’t say mankind that should be you know…
I wouldn’t just because humankind is a more accurate descriptor in the same way that me using they, them is a more accurate descriptor of my identity than using he or she.
Would you use Homo sapiens?
I very rarely in my life use scientific language to describe the people I work with.
Wise man it means, okay. But I think something do we need to think about that reclassification…
I think you should be thinking about the evolution of language to support gender-neutrality.
Yeah, got you.
And that’s for a number of reasons. The first of which is, is that it stops us assumption that either the most important people in the room are men or that the only people in the room are men. And secondly, it does include that wider spectrum of gender. There’s an excellent quote by a German linguist, Luise Pusch. He says that gender and language should be both comfortable and fair and he was referring to German which is just one of the most strictly gender codified languages in Europe…
And English is not…
What’s happening in German?
German has a grammatical gender and a gendered pronominal system, so use gendered pronouns and they have gendered nouns and that’s supported by the wider grammar of the language. But actually the German state is encouraging lecturers, professionals and industry to use gender-neutral language.
God I would be […] if I would be back.
A great example is students – so in the university – whole universities in Germany that lecturers are using gender-neutral language, refer to students –
I didn’t know that.
– because it’s inclusive of everyone and gives that space for trans-people who are neither male nor female.
Yeah, yeah, it’s a matter – Andrew there. It’s a matter of courtesy this, insensitivities?
[Andrew:] Source: LYBIO.net
Courtesy is all very well, I mean, you’re describing encouraging people to use certain words. My problem is when words are policed, when language becomes policed that is my problem… we can all get back – we can all get back to – those sorts of things, humankind or mankind. I mean, those are sort of interchangeable now, they’re synonymous anyway. We’re talking about when people actively and it is a minority of activists, it really is a minority seek to have people disciplined or sacked because they refuse to use language that they are imposing, that’s not the evolution of language. That’s the imposition of language. And I think that’s problematic.
I think it really depends on the context. So you may for example…
But I wouldn’t say, you hear what it said, that’s rude, isn’t it?
Yeah, I would say that it is dehumanizing.
I shouldn’t ever be a voice for the entirety of the trans-community, some people may self select to use it.
But in general was quite dehumanizing approach.
Isn’t it’s actually bad for him and the suffragettes would be appalled about this, wouldn’t they?
Well ultimately –
They want women to be noticed, they want women to be out of there, they want women to achieve and for other women to know that they have achieved.
It’s really about something…
What about people who are non-binary? What about people who are gender fluid?
We’re all male and female. We’ve always, yes, of course, we’re all male and female, there are a tiny…
What about transgender people?
There are a tiny minority of people who have intersex conditions and there are a tiny minority of people who have some condition where they may have a female brain and a male body. Apart from this, we are all male and female and we attempt to suggest that there is a third gender is as far as I’m concerned, it’s an ideological and a political project. It doesn’t exist. The words man and female have existed throughout history, throughout the world. They refer men are people who have penises, women are people who have vaginas, it’s as simple as that. I would absolutely refuse to refer to this woman here, who’s clearly a woman as ‘they’ because for me that would be imposing an ideological political system…
How is she clearly a woman?
Because she is if everybody watching this program can see that she is a woman and that is imposing…
I think that’s your problem. I think that is actually your problem…
That is imposing…
But you are imposing it actually…
No, you are asking me to engage in an ideological political system, which I disagree with, I believe we are all male and female…
But refusing to call someone that what they should be called is imposing an ideological system.
No, it is not, it’s referring to…
I really want to come back and address, here are some of the scientific and…
Emma, for a…
Your respect for me is already diminished, if you insist that I ascribed to some ideology of fair gender which I do not agree with if, if this he and she is socially constructed, how come everybody watching this. Everybody in the audience can basically identify male and female just by looking. Occasionally, there are people who are more difficult to identify and we try to be tactful but it’s not just socially ascribed, it relates to a physical reality reflected in our voices, our appearances and all kinds of ways…
It’s a great – life a great spectrum, no, do you think? Someone must agree with me. Who wants to say something? You want to say something, in the grey-jumper, they want to say something.
Are you they or do I say she wants to say something…
I’m a female that’s my belief system…
You want me to say, she wants to say something?
And that is fine. However, the idea that you’re saying that if this person chooses to say that they are ‘they’ that you can’t engage with that because of your belief system. We live in a culture where lots of people have lots of different beliefs as it’s very, very clear on today’s show. We – we cannot say, I have this belief system so therefore I’m going to impose it on everyone. In this – you can’t do that like, she has a particular – they have a particular…
She’s very good, yes…
At least I accept that.
This idea, there is an imposition of it, some people might say, when councils doing it, I’m doing it or when universities are doing it, it is something of an imposition and some people might be afraid to embark upon a sentence and then walk through eggshells until they get to the end of the sentence. In case, they say the wrong thing and so it’s not exactly liberating, it’s constricting. Isn’t it?
Well, it’s liberating people that are…
Peter, now you work for the Daily Telegraph. I want your mission next week to be to go to Telegraph and to convince the editor to use gender-neutral language from now on.
You know the truth is the Telegraph pretty much does use gender-neutral language, it doesn’t use they but it uses firefighter and uses chair…
There we go…
And truth is language is organic, it reflects the society that it comes out of it. You can impose bits of it but ultimately is ‘they’ gonna stick as a personal pronoun for one person, I kind of doubt it. Because actually, that’s not how most people see the world and I think you know, we’re kind of right on the margin here. I’m father of two daughters, I think actually firefighter is better than fireman.
My two girls, if they want to work in the fire service, terrific.
Because it’s accurate.
Yeah, I mean, I don’t see we should get too hung up, if you want to tie yourself in knots, ultimately the arbiter of whether that works a lot will be the way people use language and they will accept it or reject it on a basis of common sense because it’s nothing more utilitarian than language.
And quite happily…
We mustn’t lose sight of the fact that language does refer to a reality. As a writer, I’m very aware of this. It’s very important he/she refers to a male and female reality. And I think that there is something very serious at stake, if we really do start eroding concepts of male and female which I believe is happening.
[Camille Anna Paglia:] Source: LYBIO.net
One thing I am I’m noticing, I mean everywhere I go to speak whether it’s you know England, Italy, Brazil where I’ve gone in a number of times and so on. The upper-middle class professional women are very unhappy. They’re very unhappy. They may have power, they may have a nice lifestyle and so on but there is the misery quotient is high, okay.
And what I’m saying, as a feminist is that the women have to stop blaming men for their sense of malaise or misery, okay. But it’s not men, there’s been a cultural change, an enormous change has happened. Alright. For the first time in history, men and women are working side by side in an environment where they – men and women having more contact with each other than they ever did, okay.
There used to be in the agrarian era for all those tens of thousands of years, the world of men and the world of women and those two worlds didn’t come together that often. So I can still remember it, okay, in that end of the agrarian era that I experienced in childhood. Okay, the women had their own world, they ruled the private sphere, right, all day with multi-generational. Ok. There was a solidarity that women had, they were in charge of tremendous amount of life.
And the men, you would come together for dinner, okay. But you know the men had their own world and I remember the men – when the men would come over to my – my grandmother’s house, you know my grandfather be sitting there, they’ll be drinking. I could smell the coffee with the anisette, they were put in there and right alongside of it and the smoking et cetera, the men we would have the men, the men, the men, okay and then the women, the women, the women had their own thing, okay.
So I think that what women are feeling right now is a sense of displacement, okay and loneliness, okay. Because there also it’s the collapse of the extended family, okay the multi-generational family into this nuclear family. It could be that this nuclear family thing is toxic, okay. All right, this thing of like a man, a husband and a wife and children in a home – in a nice house, it could be like a horrible prison. It could be like a you know a crucible for a Freudian neurosis, okay and so on okay. Never in history, never in history, okay, have you had this entrapment of the children with the parents.
Okay, the parents are now – now they’re responsible for everything. And then you know the richer, the wealthier okay, the more affluence, you know a wife and so on. Who has children the less likely she is going to be able to rely on neighbors, okay, to like pitch in for her.
Okay, you know can you imagine like, someone in Scarsdale, the wife or whatever, okay. Suddenly something comes up okay, she needs to run somewhere to do something to say to her neighbor okay. Can you watch the kids for a couple of hours? Oh, sure. Okay, that’s really going to happen. Sometimes you hardly know the neighbors, okay. So oddly enough many working-class neighborhoods you have much more of an integration there and a familiarity because on the whole working-class people don’t move okay as much, okay, they often grow up in neighborhoods – where they grew up they know everybody et cetera, right.
And you know it’s a feature even in South Philadelphia to this day, in those row houses in South Philadelphia, the Italian section and so on. People sit on the stoop, okay, they watch everything that goes by, okay, they’re monitoring the way kids behave in the street, okay. There was a whole village quality – in the old village life, there was a sense of community, in a sense of belonging, a sense of identity and now today people have the struggle, you know they struggle for an identity, okay. They struggle okay, everyone feels very displaced.
[Camille Paglia:] Source: LYBIO.net
Another thing okay, is that the higher up you go in terms of affluence the less likely it is that you – on vacations that you’ll be vacationing with your relatives, okay. See what I’m saying.
In other words people who are – people are flying to St. Barts, are not taking their parents, okay. They’re not taking all the cousins and so on, right but when I go to just drive an hour go to the New Jersey Shore, okay, where working-class families go in the wild woods and so on. You see multi-generational vacationing, okay, all the generations. You see you see the children running around, you see the parents and you see the old people, they’re sitting there in their chairs like you know like this and so on, the waters lapping their feet and so on, I’m going. This is amazing this is a capsule okay, of what life used to be like, that contact among all the generations, okay. And the same thing in Philadelphia the parks like, Fairmount Park and so on, on any Sunday, any weekend you go there into working-class families who are taking over the park benches in the barbecue pits and are spending the whole day there, multi-generations altogether, free, okay to go to the park.
So that’s why you’re getting more and more neurosis, the higher – higher up you go in terms of affluence, okay, that’s why you have some of the most privileged young people in our society getting into elite schools, having to take antidepressants and throwing themselves out of windows and everything else, okay. Because mere material affluence isn’t enough okay, for identity, so actually the stronger personalities seems to me to be coming from working-class culture because they have a sense of their own place in the universe, they aren’t means shift around every place. All right, so I think we have there’s a lot of psychological ills in the culture but I want to – I’m calling for a moratorium on this anti-male stuff, okay. All right, feminism is gotten very contaminated with anti-male rhetoric. It’s completely unnecessary okay, all the problems in the world are not due to men, okay, a lot of problems are due to the systemic change that happens okay in this new era that we belong to.
[Camille Paglia:] Source: LYBIO.net
All right. Well, I mean, we want to have questions, so I just stop. All right, I just stop…
[Connect and Follow Camille Paglia:]
Smart Woman Leaves Gender Fluid Person SPEECHLESS In Heated Argument. Feminism is gotten very contaminated with anti-male rhetoric. Complete Full Transcript, Dialogue, Remarks, Saying, Quotes, Words And Text.